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Visit Arkansas Gloria's column >>

ARKANSAS GLORIA

Articles Posted: 17  Links Seeded: 174
Member Since: 1/2009  Last Seen: 4/11/2012

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ECONOMICALLY AND FINANCIALLY,THE WORLD IS A DIFFERENT PLACE, AND RULES HAVE CHANGED. AMERICANS SEEM TO BE HEADED FOR A HARD TIME, TOO, AND HOW TO PROCEED IS WROUGHT WITH UNCERTAINTY

Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:45 PM EST
wall-street, food, budget, mortgages, politics, unemployment, economics, greece, income, deficits, civil-unrest, depressions, austerity
By Arkansas Gloria

Prices on all goods, not just fuel are uncertain- but sure to increase, the question is: by how much, and how soon? What will the impact be on Americans, and will buying power decrease?

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  • Groups: Centervine, Free Thinkers, Hunger in America, Living with Less, Newsvine HONOR Vine, Outraged Americans For Justice, Power to The People!, Time to Save Money
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  • Public Discussion (58)
Arkansas Gloria

I wrote this article, primarily, due to not being able to determine if I should try to pay off my mortgage, or buy canned foods- in the light of the coming inflation likely to affect all of us. After all that has happened to us, and all the new poverty and unemployment, and financial confusion- how is one to proceed?

This is a question that counts for most of us, that, probably are the Average American Citizen.

Anyone else confused, too? What a world we live in.

Please observe CoH, and do not yell at each other, and do not come here and point fingers at Bush and Obama and Democrats, and Republicans- come here and help each other and offer thoughts, ideas and experiences.

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:00 PM EST
ed-1874584

I don't see an article. Is there a link?

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:43 PM EST
Arkansas Gloria

No, just the article I wrote, on ways to proceed in our economy. I was at the Greece article, then at the article on China buying gold, and this weighed heavy on my mind. What is the best way for the average American to go forward? I could refinance, and then work on paying the house off, or could buy some farming land, and more seeds, or a hand pump for the well... and I thought so many others might not know the best way forward, either, financially.

    #1.2 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:07 PM EST
    There They Go Again

    Gloria,

    What to do depends on several factors. If you expect inflation, have a fairly reliable income and have a fixed rate mortgage upon which you can make the payments, I would probably choose to keep the mortgage and stock up on food and other necessary items. If your income is shaky, if your mortgage is adjustable rate, if you change your mind and figure that deflation is more likely (quite possible if unemployment worsens) or if you have the funds available to pay it all off immediately, without borrowing any more money, I would get rid of the mortgage first and then start building up such stocks. Whichever you do though, do not acquire any more debt.

    • 2 votes
    #1.3 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:17 PM EST
    Arkansas Gloria

    This mortgage is not variable- we would never do that, and our income should stabilize a bit- unless our nation falls apart! Social Security is set to start in 3 months, so for the length of time that is being payed out, our income will hold. Explain deflation to me, please.

      #1.4 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:41 PM EST
      There They Go Again

      Deflation is the opposite of inflation. Cash becoming more and more valuable as unemployment increases and there is less and less of it to be had. Remember that, like everything else, the law of supply and demand also works with money. If demand for it increases and the supply stays the same or decreases (or any combination of those), the value of the money increases (internally, not necessarily in international trade). If more money is printed without a corresponding increase in the GDP or, if for some reason (loss of confidence in the sustainability of the currency or people going to a barter economy), the demand decreases, the value of that money decreases. The first is called deflation and is usually associated with economic depressions or the loss of earning power by individuals. The second is called inflation and is usually associated with unlimited borrowing and spending by governments.

      • 2 votes
      #1.5 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:05 PM EST
      Reply
      tyler-1708225

      We are lucky to have space for a garden and we freeze and can the produce. When we buy we check the dates to make sure they are good for a long period of time. Otherwise we will rely on how we survived when we were dirt poor. We also camp and some of our equipment will help out. We always took care of ourselves with no help and were never materialistic so we should survive.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#2 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:28 PM EST
      Enoch-2699399

      Paying off your mortgage protects your spot on the planet. I recommend doing that first. Having canned goods and no home in which to store them is the less appealing of the two alternatives.

      Just my opinion.

      Enoch.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#3 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:34 PM EST
      tyler-1708225

      We have our mortgage paid off. But then if you could see the shack I was raised in, it wouldn't be hard to put one of those up in a hurry. Would have to put in a bathroom I suppose since I'm sure an out house wouldn't pass codes these days.

      • 3 votes
      #3.1 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:41 PM EST
      Arkansas Gloria

      It isn't that I would be so afraid of losing our house, but the uncertainty of what will happen when/if inflation hits America is leaving my ideas in limbo. It is apparent that Governments will first protect themselves, bankers, Corporations, and the last people on the list is actually us. Will payments even be possible on a mortgage if inflation of ...say... a 25% increase affects us?

        #3.2 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:10 PM EST
        Arkansas Gloria

        Hi, Enoch! Thanks for your ideas/suggestions! This article (I hope) isn't about me... (me, me, me), but was actually thinking we might share ideas as to what we might expect to see, if hyper-inflation begins, in order to be ready, and in order to help others. I, too, am believing the best thing might be to begin working on the mortgage next.

        My concerns are for those that rent, too. Will inflation- meaning less buying power, make rents increase or decrease? If they are unable to pay rents, where will a million people live?

        • 1 vote
        #3.3 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:28 PM EST
        Reply
        Dean Moriarty

        We all knew helicopter Bens Qe1 and Qe2 would bring about runaway inflation it's just a matter of time.

        • 2 votes
        #4 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:35 PM EST
        Arkansas Gloria

        When, Dean? That is my biggest question right now. What are the financial signals? I see the people of Greece, and the people are doing some serious suffering, as have people of other nations done in the past, but my question is: when?

        I would bet that the people of Greece- the PEOPLE, were unable to see just what was coming- how serious this correction could be, and how it would actually affect THEM.

        If I read now on some of the Greece articles, many already get paid by their employers whenever the employer actually is able to pay them something... once a month, once every two months, and those on Social Services are being handed less and less. The taxes are increasing heavily- while everything is being cut.

          #4.1 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:37 PM EST
          Jonathan-1917156

          Gloria,

          The problems in greece have no relation to what is happening here in the US. Greece's biggest problem is that most of the economy is actually in the black market, and isn't taxed at all, so Greece has a huge problem with being able to fund government operations. The taxes are increasing greece because so little of the economy as it is, isn't taxed. So either people have to start paying tax on what previously wasn't taxed, or the taxes for those that are already paying the taxes have to increase. Again, that ISN'T the same scenario as for here.

          As far as inflation, the FED puts so much effort into reducing the inflation rate, that it is VERY unlikely that runaway inflation for the economy as a whole will be an issue. If it gets to that point, there are going to be much more severe structural issues, and inflation itself really won't be an issue.

          For those that mention QE1 & QE2, neither one really has had that much of an impact, nor will it. The amounts just aren't large enough to make much of a difference one way or the other. The purpose of the programs was to increase liquidity, and it generally did so in a relatively neutral manner. Though what is very important to understand is that they are short term measures, they were never intended to fix the structural problems of the economy, but more that they were to tide things over until the economy picked up again.

          • 3 votes
          #4.2 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:38 PM EST
          Arkansas Gloria

          Thanks, Jonathan, it does seem the Feds have kept inflation fairly low, and with everybody posting that we are set to follow Greece, you have helped me with... thinking!

            #4.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:40 PM EST
            Jonathan-1917156

            What you really should do is sit down with a financial planner and work this out, because, as you admit, you are really in over your head when it comes to the economics issues (interesting that I just posted a comment on the china/gold news story relating to this lol), and a lot of this isn't just the economics, it is your own personal situation.

            As someone that spent more than a decade in the financial industry, I really do have a difficult time making specific suggestions to you, because I don't know your specific situation, financially and stability wise. There are potentially many options for you, and someone that is far more familiar with the laws and options in your state, as well as someone that you can explain as much as you can about your current situation would be much more effective for you, especially if they can explain those options to you clearly. To make any specific suggestions to you, would be for me, a direct ethical violation. (yeah I know, hard to believe someone from the financial industry talking about behaving ethically lol).

            As for the global economics, people like to latch on to buzzwords and unrelated happenings and think the world is going to end. What is more than likely going to happen in the US is a very gradual (applied to the country, not to specific groups within the country) reduction in the standard of living. Some will notice it, some will benefit, so the effects won't be uniform. While the US is probably the ONLY country in the world that can dig itself out of the hole that it is in, I don't see the political will from either party on coming up with the solutions that are needed to commit to that, hence I see that gradual longer term reduction in economic power. The issue with Greece is that it just doesn't have the economic base to be able to dig itself out of the hole that it is in. This makes ANY parallel with the US not relevant.

            • 2 votes
            #4.4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:54 PM EST
            Mark from Bridgeport

            Jonathan is spot on, and everything he has said is accurate.

            Arkansas Gloria, here's my take. This is what I do, and it's just advice. With $2.00 it'll get you a cup of coffee.

            1. Consider your mortgage, and how long it will take to pay off, and what your plans are AFTER it's paid off. If you're going to sell it in the short run (0-5 years), it makes no sense to pay it off early. If cash is tight, there's no sense in paying it off early.
            IF, on the other hand, you can afford it... throw 10-20% extra on the principle every month. You'll slash years off of the interest payments. Likewise, see if it makes sense to refinance your mortgage. As a rule of thumb, if you can reduce it by 1% and your term is over 7 years remaining it's worth it.
            Right now you should be able to find at least 3.5% with no points at any local bank. I only take out big loans at local banks, as a) I prefer to give my interest (though I hate paying it) to a local firm and b) they are local so you can go talk to them.

            2. Fire up Excel and put ALL of your household expenses down... cell phones, water bill, electric, even food shopping. Sum it by month, then by year. Divide the year by half. Do you always have that much in liquid funds (ie: cash, short-term CDs, savings/checking, gold/silver coins?) If not, increase your buffer before you do anything else. The number of people ruined by having to take high-interest short term loans is staggering.

            3. Always keep about a quarter to a half of a week's pay in cash hidden somewhere in the house. If you find yourself in a situation like the Connecticut blackouts or something (where you're without access to power for a week), cash & carry is the only resort you have. Make sure you have both small and large bills... it makes it a lot easier to make change.

            4. Long-term food supplies are okay for emergencies but it's probably not worth stocking up just for the (unlikely) possibility of financial armageddon. However, keeping a couple of weeks worth of MREs or canned goods in the event of a natural disaster is a good idea. Also of course a medical kit, batteries, etc. I also keep a couple of oil lamps and had my house wired for a generator for $600.

            5. Keep a diversified portfolio. If you're older, be more conservative. I'm in my late 30s and keep under 5% in gold a 2:1 mix in stocks to bonds. Mileage may vary, but most people forget... buy low and sell high. If you never take profit, you won't have any, and if you chase returns, you're chasing your tail.
            Until they stopped printing them, I used to also buy EE & I bonds as a way to put away money I never wanted to touch except in dire emergency. It's still doable, but it's an online account with the treasury.

            6. Drive your car until it won't go anymore. I bought a 2000 Chrysler (new) in 2001. I'm going to drive it until it dies -- that is, when repairs for a year are higher than a new car payment.

            7. Pay down all debt, highest interest rate first. In general, if you carry a balance on your credit card, you're paying for stuff twice after 4 years.
            (In case that's not clear: suppose you open a card today and charge $1500 on it. If you never bring the balance down to zero, you'll have paid $3000 for the goods you bought THIS month by Feb 2016. Think that's bad? This happens every month! This is why credit card companies love it when you carry a balance and hate "deadbeats" -- people that pay their cards off every month.)

            8. Never invest in anything with a "guaranteed rate of return" that someone suggests to you. It doesn't exist.

            9. If you have a choice between fees and no fees, always choose the latter. Especially if you're investing in Mutual funds.

            10. Take Jonathan's advice on the financial planner, but question motives.

            11. Figure out what you want to leave to people, and do it while you're alive. Otherwise, they get hammered with taxes and (if you end up getting sick as most of us do), your assets are liquidated before you get state assistance (if your state has it).

            • 2 votes
            #4.5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:39 PM EST
            Jonathan-1917156

            Mark,

            1) I didn't get into specifics for a reason, :P

            2) A financial planner is different from an investment advisor.

            As for mutual funds, you are always paying a fee, you are either doing it visibly or not visibly. So a FE loaded fund will have that being paid visibly, but a DSC or a NL fund will have that charge either deferred or invisible (A DSC will charge you based on how long you held the fund when you redeem it, a NL will have the fee's built into the MER of the fund), either way, you are still paying a fee.

            And guaranteed rates do exist, CD's have a guaranteed rate of return, but the lower risk you take in general, the lower return that you get.

            • 1 vote
            #4.6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:43 PM EST
            Mark from Bridgeport

            1) As I read! (Did I give you any grief? I didn't think I did...)

            2) Often, but not always. I saw a lot of... "blending" in the tri-state between the dot-com boom and the real estate bust.

            3) Fair enough, but don't you in general find that no loads come a lot closer to zero?

            The key words are "that someone suggests to you". I probably could have written that better -- of course I don't mean gov't bonds, munis, CDs...

            • 1 vote
            #4.7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:59 PM EST
            Jonathan-1917156

            nope, the NL funds will generally have a corresponding DSC fund and if you look at everything put together, they work out the same in terms of fees. (you have to look at the DSC fund over the full period that they require you to hold it, usually 5 years). The underlying fund will be the same though, same manager, same holdings etc... The fees are just hidden in the NL, but they are still there, and they end up being the same in the end.

            I only mentioned that about specifics because it is generally unethical to provide financial advice unless you are a licensed advisor. She already has enough of a problem with confusion because she was getting all kinds of different advice. I just didn't want that to be added to, that is all.

            Where I look at the difference between a financial planner and an investment advisor is that you pay a financial planner for the consult, and unless you need investment advice, there is none. An investment advisor gets paid from the investments, not you directly. She really shouldn't be talking about any investments until she gets her long term financial planning assessment done, and it is agreed upon that she needs investments.

            • 2 votes
            #4.8 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:07 PM EST
            Mark from Bridgeport

            Fair enough, but I don't think I gave any advice one couldn't pick up from any of the talking heads like Clark Howard & Jim Cramer. I certainly didn't advise anything specific that would benefit me in any way.

            Yes, my point was to question anyone why they're suggesting to "put money into x", not to question your suggestion to see a planner.
            Re: getting everything else in order before investing. Absolutely!

            • 2 votes
            #4.9 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:31 PM EST
            Arkansas Gloria

            Jonathan, appreciate you not getting into specifics, actually, because I know everybody's situation really has to work for them, and has plenty of variables. We have stored enough food for probably 2 months right now, after having gone through that ice storm 2 yrs ago, for which I was totally unprepared. Now have lights-lanterns, batteries...all the stuff- generator, etc. Planning right now in staying in this house until we are deceased- hopefully another 20 years! We are both in the 60 yr. old range,and are concerned with the situation the United States is in- and how medical costs will affect us in 2014-2015, how inflationary costs might make living 'fearlessly- or comfortably' impossible.

            We all have our ghosts of the past- and I remember my parents too poor to leave the house, as costs went up, and their income didn't.

            We drive 1985 and 1986 Toyota trucks, which we will have painted this year, and this summer, we are going to build this:

            http://gtodd52.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/13/8784684-green-transportation

            We will have a wood-fueled truck running before the end of June, hopefully, which will free us from fuel concerns.

            I think my biggest question is the one that everybody is experiencing right now: how does one predict our economy?

            • 1 vote
            #4.10 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:31 PM EST
            Mark from Bridgeport

            If anyone could predict the economy, they already don't need to... But at the end of the day, it's simply too complex an animal. No one (not even Warren Buffett) gets everything right.

            As my grandparents used to say, "prepare for the worst and hope for the best".

            • 3 votes
            #4.11 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:36 PM EST
            Jonathan-1917156

            gloria,

            Well I wouldn't even do the two months thing, but you indicated a weather related reason for doing it so I won't begrudge that.

            The prediction of the economy, you can't, nobody can. Though if you were to ask my friends, they will (well hopefully) begrudgingly admit that I predicted what we are experiencing today economically. (Well I said something like, 'because of what we are doing today, we are going to get hit with something extremely nasty, and when it happens, it is going to be not only really nasty, it is going to take a VERY LONG TIME to dig ourselves out of it'). I was saying that back in 2003.

            The average person isn't going to be able to predict the economy because there are too many variables that the average person doesn't see, and even those that can see it really can't make anything resembling long term predictions.

            I realize that this gives a feeling of helplessness, but quite frankly this isn't anything new. People only thought they had control over the country's economic destiny. Now it is just visible that there is a lot more happening that people don't see.

            • 2 votes
            #4.12 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:36 PM EST
            Arkansas Gloria

            Mark, I appreciate both you and Jonathan here, and would always consider heavily any moves before I made any, no matter who suggests what! I asked for ideas. Ideas need to be considered, and lead to knowledge, after which one can make decisions!

            Without input, I wouldn't know how to determine if a re-fi is good for us: now I have a (relative)rule to use, and even if a refi doesn't hold true to exactly 24 mo., it gives me a fair guide. Without some knowledge of things I have never been at the place to pay attention to before (there was too much bill paying and prep to get to this point), I would not have a clue for -'what now'?

            Now, for our personal situation, I do: see a financial planner for ideas. My main concern is more for global economics, and how that plays out in America, and how that may influence choices that 1,000-1,000,000 Americans may need to make. I think there are many at the crossroads I am experiencing right now- it's a new financial-political world out here in America, and the average person- especially if 60-65, may be very unsure of themselves in it.

            Thanks for adding!

            • 1 vote
            #4.13 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:51 PM EST
            Arkansas Gloria

            Jonathan- post #4.12, LOL! Boy, that makes me feel better! HaHaHa- (friendly laugh)-

            Actually, many solid, simple ideas have been put out here, and if others are looking for what may be best for them, there are some solid ideas to follow. Can't ask for more than that.

            I did not actually realize that we were in a housing bubble, but I did catch on to ...something's happening here- example: a house, that 3 years ago was worth $93,000- $100,000 was now valued at $260,000. We managed to sell ours in early 2006, about 2 wks before the market fell out in that area! What I lack in schooling- or financial business school- I pick up in intuition- paying attention, and asking people.

            • 1 vote
            #4.14 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:03 PM EST
            Jonathan-1917156

            Well I wrote something about a month ago (might be about 6 weeks ago now) about what I feel is wrong with the nation and the economy. I didn't get into specifics there either, though I state why in it. So if you want a quick read on my thoughts, just go to my profile and click on the 'the economy is growing ... but are we out of the woods yet'.

            • 2 votes
            #4.15 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:06 PM EST
            Arkansas Gloria

            Will do

              #4.16 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:51 PM EST
              Reply
              FlNutmegger

              I vote with Enoch's plan. Pay off the mortgage. Having lived throught the Great Depression with all of the worst of it thrown at us in Ct. there were times, many times, that we were without food but there was always a roof over our heads and even though there was no heat or electricity we were dry.

              • 4 votes
              Reply#5 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:46 PM EST
              tyler-1708225

              #5. I wonder how many have the means to pay off a mortgage.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#6 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:00 PM EST
              Arkansas Gloria

              Probably not everyone, and we are a far cry from slightly above poverty, it seems, but since this is the time- it appears- to refinance, we could get a greatly lowered interest rate, and put it on 15 years instead- the payments are comparable, and able to double down on principal soon- have been paying off bills more than faithfully, and have been undecided as to next.

              In a normal climate, I would not pay off the house, but these are abnormal times.

                #6.1 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:15 PM EST
                Lee-479062

                If the payback on the cost to refi is less than 2 years (closing costs, etc with no balance change) minus (savings on monthly payments times 24) and you plan to stay put for that time, do the refi. Pay off everything else, starting with the highest interest rate item and moving down until it is all gone except the house. Then funnel everything into paying off the mortgage. If you are expecting inflation, which is very likely, don't stash cash. Buy something tangible, like additional land or silver.

                As for hoarding food, if you do, make sure it is good for at least 3 years.

                • 3 votes
                #6.2 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:49 PM EST
                Arkansas Gloria

                Have done the bill paying part- they are now all gone, minus 1 more. That one will be paid off shortly- actually using it right now for credit rating improvement. I do not understand what you said, on the cost to refinance...

                Let me put it this way: I am at 7.25% and can get 2.99% or 3.10% right now, on a 15 yr. mortgage, and then, can pay down principal because there is less interest/month, and more principal/mo, and with the less interest being paid, I can pay a double or triple principal payment every month- for as long as income remains stable... (Social Security to start)

                Can you give me dollar examples?

                  #6.3 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:05 PM EST
                  Arkansas Gloria

                  Sorry, Lee, I got it- kinda.. it would be about a wash- over a two year period, but what would change significantly would be the amount of interest ea. month, vs. the amount of principal ea. month.

                  We were looking at a 15 yr. (new) mortgage), vs a 30 yr., so the 15 yr. mortgage payments would be a bit higher than a 30 yr, but the interest savings is something like $53,000.00, if we became unable to funnel sufficient amounts into it to pay it off rapidly.

                    #6.4 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:11 PM EST
                    Lee-479062

                    Let us say that all the costs of refinancing (appraisal, credit app, discount points, fees, etc.) equals $3600. Let us also say that the new payment is $175 per month cheaper than the old payment. The payback period is less than 24 months ($175 x 24 = $4200). The payback period is 21 months ($3600/$175 = 20.5 months).

                    If you are going from a 30 to a 15 year mortgage and can still effect a payback in 24 months or less, that is great. But if it is close to breakeven and the closing costs can be rolled into the loan, you should still be OK. I would shop hard for the lowest fees you can find.

                    • 2 votes
                    #6.5 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:28 PM EST
                    There They Go Again

                    Lee's got it almost exactly Gloria with only one small addition. It'll cost you another $250 or so but take the actual loan agreement you're going to sign to a good lawyer and have him check it over. He'll find any cute little tricks that might be placed there by the mortgage company. Could save you big bucks down the line. You'd be surprised at what they'll pull, if you let them get away with it.

                    • 1 vote
                    #6.6 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:45 PM EST
                    Reply
                    Helpmeunderstand1

                    I think older folks like myself will be okay, as long as we don't have our retirement funds completely tied up in the market. And I agree, pay off that house. I do wonder what will happen to the younger generations when they can no longer afford all of their electronic devices. Will they still be able to communicate with one another? Actually, my greatest concern is the potential for civil unrest. The Occupy Wall Street crowds are just the beginning of what could become violent riots of the 'have nots' rising up against the 'haves'. I think we are on the brink, teetering back and forth with only time telling whether we will recover or go into a major depression. For those who think eliminating government and social welfare programs is the solution, be careful because they may be your only hope if the economy does in fact collapse. People need to be patient because I think times may be tough for an extended period.

                    • 3 votes
                    Reply#7 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:07 PM EST
                    tyler-1708225

                    #7. Who is going to pay for those social welfare programs when the money isn't there? It could be bread lines and nothing more. And young people losing their eletronic devises would be the least of their problems if they like to eat.

                    • 3 votes
                    #7.1 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:16 PM EST
                    Arkansas Gloria

                    Helpmeunderstand 1: I agree, that social programs will be very much needed, and are already. What infuriates me is the abuse and scamming that is going on, as this money/aid will be very much needed, when things get harder still.

                    • 3 votes
                    #7.2 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:18 PM EST
                    Arkansas Gloria

                    Oh, Tyler: Our young will have it so hard, as most of them haven't even seen another world- one outside of computers, electronics, iPods, Colas, cookies, ice cream...

                    and much of our college age will have it worse, too, as they haven't a clue how to fish, or hunt, or pick wild fruits, or which wild green things are edible..

                    • 3 votes
                    #7.3 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:23 PM EST
                    tyler-1708225

                    #7.3. The shock on our young people will be enormous.

                    • 2 votes
                    #7.4 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:29 PM EST
                    Helpmeunderstand1

                    In another Newsvine article under discussion, one person is recommending everyone carry guns like in the Wild West and legalizing all drugs as a way to give back freedom to the people and put us on track for political and economic recovery. All I can envision is a Country in a depression with everyone carrying guns, high on drugs and pissed as hell. I don't think that combination will end well. I would favor mandatory public service of at least two years by all 18 year olds and possibly some public works projects for some of the unemployed to take a little pressure off. Although I won't go so far as to recommend sterilization, it would sure help if people would quit having so many babies. If you think we have problems now, with current population growth we are going to be in deep trouble in fifty more years.

                    • 5 votes
                    #7.5 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:46 PM EST
                    Tink-2285193Deleted
                    wolfbilly

                    Anybody other than I wish that vine people, who have nothing relative to the article to speak about, would just go away and seed their stuff on their own??? Can I get an AMEN!

                    • 2 votes
                    #7.7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:06 AM EST
                    Arkansas Gloria

                    Amen.

                    • 1 vote
                    #7.8 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:20 AM EST
                    Reply
                    wolfbilly

                    I would consider paying the mortgage off entirely if at all possible.

                    Pay any outstanding debts, and try not to incur any future debt if at all possible.

                    The hand pump on your well could be one of the very best investments you could make right now.

                    Keep plenty of ammunition and firearms for hunting and personal protection.

                    If you have dirt, plant potatoes, beans, and other basics than can be stored for Winter.

                    Just a few thoughts that come to mind. Nobody can foretell the future, but I want to be as self-reliant as I possibly can be.

                    • 4 votes
                    Reply#8 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:45 PM EST
                    Arkansas Gloria

                    Hi, Wolfbilly- Think I will work on the mortgage next, do all I can, and I can blow a bird out of the sky on the wing. Got my first deer 2 years ago, kinda was my 'rights of passing'. I am planning on starting a small, kinda backyard business this year, putting the grandkids into business, doing a plant nursery- selling vegetable plants and seeds.

                    Some say I have a very green thumb- I think I just love to see new life and food from that life come forth!

                    • 2 votes
                    #8.1 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:55 PM EST
                    Reply
                    Arkansas Gloria

                    FInutmegger; I did not live through the Great Depression, but my parents did, and I recall a basement filled with canned goods that we put up every year, and excess store canned foods that was purchased with every spare dollar!!

                    Mom would always send me to the basement for a can of something, and tell me to be sure to push on the top, to see if it had 'popped'- if it was still good or not!

                    In the last two years, I have been learning about which veggies store well for long periods of time without refrigeration, learning how to do my own canning, including meats, and have gone out and picked buckets and buckets of the 'free' stuff- Blackberries, Hickories, Walnuts, and have been learning more lately about the 'wild' foods and herbs.

                    We used to build outside fireplaces in Wis. for fun- it was a neighborhood project- to see who could build the slickest one out of rocks and what- have-you, so am not worried about being able to heat a house or cook in it.

                    But, what about all of those who haven't the knowledge, or the initiative? That is worse.

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#9 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:21 PM EST
                    imsovain

                    Americans are headed for a hard time, alright.They need to understand money creation,how bad they're getting screwed by the international corporation known collectiveley as the fed,the absolute destruction of endless war on all peoples involved,save those who create the wars and profit from them,politically and financially.How to proceed is a well-documented science.For starters why don't you give up writing articles and try reading some of value.

                      Reply#10 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:24 PM EST
                      Arkansas Gloria

                      imsovain: I am not here to discuss what we all know. For starters, for you, why don't you try to figure out what I wrote here, and why I am so concerned about my fellow Americans? Try to stay on topic, respond to the article and not criticize the author (me). There is more in this little, simple article than there seems- if one actually looks at the questions posed.

                      • 2 votes
                      #10.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:32 AM EST
                      Reply
                      wolfbilly

                      imsovain #10

                      Thanks for the advice, but the writer is requesting informative assistance, not off-topic comments regarding suggested reading. If you have nothing more of value to offer, then you don't belong here. Have a nice day.

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#11 - Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:51 PM EST
                      Arkansas Gloria

                      Thanks, Wolfbilly- I had to go eat, and walk off for a minute. imsovain hasn't been off of suspension for very long, and still at it, it may seem.

                      • 1 vote
                      #11.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:35 AM EST
                      Reply
                      Wolf Wolfman

                      This may be of interest: When I was trucking, I hauled canned goods approximately 7 years old to a government disposal facility. The government had something called "Defense Districts" which purchased and stored canned food. I picked up the canned goods in Pennsylvania, and delivered them to the "Defense District" in Columbus, Ohio. They were careful to make sure the old canned goods got destroyed.

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#12 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:30 AM EST
                      Mark from Bridgeport

                      Yep. The government has stockpiles of many goods... from apples & wheat to helium and (most famously) the strategic oil reserve. They cycle them on a regular basis so they can't spoil.

                      • 3 votes
                      #12.1 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:33 PM EST
                      Jonathan-1917156

                      The Helium is largely gone now.

                      • 2 votes
                      #12.2 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:38 PM EST
                      Mark from Bridgeport

                      What? They figured out we're probably not going to need zeppelins in our next armed conflict? How'd that happen?!

                      • 2 votes
                      #12.3 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:40 PM EST
                      Jonathan-1917156

                      In the 80's, that decision was made, so the government just started to sell it off at FAR below market rates. The bigger problem is that there are a lot of industrial processes that need it (being a noble gas and all) and most of it is just going up into the air for balloons. There is no non nuclear way to manufacture more helium either, so when we run out, a strategic resource is gone. Just because zeppelins won't exist in future wars (well that may not be true either), doesn't mean that Helium isn't a strategic resource.

                      • 3 votes
                      #12.4 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:49 PM EST
                      Mark from Bridgeport

                      I always thought it was a by-product from collecting natural gas? Last time I heard we had over 12 billion cubic feet (that was around 2003).

                      • 1 vote
                      #12.5 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:33 PM EST
                      Jonathan-1917156

                      it is a byproduct of radioactive decay, that decay happens in the decay of C14 (an alpha particle is just a helium nucleus so if you have an alpha particle, it just needs to collect two electrons and you have a helium particle).

                      Now because natural gas is a hydroCARBON, there will be a certain amount of helium present, though not much in natural gas because it is a VERY YOUNG hydrocarbon.

                      • 1 vote
                      #12.6 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:00 PM EST
                      Reply
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